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The Evil Within & Tutorials in Modern Games – #CUPodcast

Pat & Ian discuss tutorials in modern games after Ian has played The Evil Within.
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  1. Seriously, enough with the F word every 10 seconds.

  2. I did the same thing in this game, I tried killing the first big guy and didn't know why I died and it didn't work lol

  3. intuitive tutorials are far better than manuals

  4. So have you guys played Dark Souls?

  5. The Evil Within was a great game, shame they didn't play further before analyzing. The story doesn't make much sense though.

  6. That game did the same thing to me. It took me like 5 tries to get past it.

  7. Probably. lol love you guys. Quit blaspheming the Lords name though. Kinda pathetic ya know. Much better without it.

  8. Haha, I was just talking to my GF about this!

    This is EXACTLY what happened to me the first time I played Zelda: Ocarina of Time.  For the first hour or so, Navi is holding your hand, telling you exactly what to do the entire time.  She tells you where to go, what to do, what items do, how to kill enemies, etc. etc. etc.

    Then you have to solve a puzzle a ways into the first dungeon using mechanics that aren't even hinted at.  SPOILERS: You have to light a Deku Stick on fire to clear a web out of your way.

    You are not told to do this.  Navi never mentions this particular Deku Stick function at any time.  It is never demonstrated to you.  You're expected to go IMMEDIATELY, and without any warning, from extreme hand-holding to thinking on your own, with no tangible transition or in-between.

    I HATE when games do this.

    Like you said, had Navi not even existed in the first place, I would've been experimenting with everything on my own, and probably could've figured this out myself.  But because she gives you explicit instructions that you MUST follow to progress the game, for well over an hour, you're not expecting to have to think for yourself, and thus get stuck.

    Tutorials suck these days, and they've been sucking since long before 2007.

  9. Have to agree with Ian on the tutorials–I too find myself playing rigidly whenever a game has one, and being anything but tutored ("You tutor?can anyone be tooted?") during the poorly laid out ones.

    Kind of funny Pat mentions Psycho in reference to Ian's game and says "that's like having the first scene in Psycho being the stab in the face"….when Psycho was known to be revolutionary for killing of the "main character" so early in the movie, and with 95% of the psychological development of Norman being after the shocking-for-the-time murder. I get his point but in 1960, that basically WAS starting with a stab in the face.

  10. I like it when a game has a practice/tutorial level that's selectable from the title screen. Can't stand it when it is actually part of the game though. I'm also not a fan of the constant on-screen prompts and quick-time events that are prevalent in modern games. Let me figure stuff out on my own!

  11. Ian usually drinks a beer,  today he has settles for a gallon of piss.

  12. I miss the old days when games came with informative and sometimes colorful and well-illustrated manuals. I remember reading and going through manuals just to see the little biographies and introductions to the story and characters some of them had

  13. I don't understand. The game deliberately tells you to do the wrong thing during a tutorial just to screw you over?

  14. I had a manual in my copy of The Evil Within. 

  15. A lot of modern games do have crap tutorials, but most of the time you can turn them off anyway.

  16. Do you guys ever talk about positive things when it comes to modern games'?

  17. Uh … Evil Within comes with a pretty good manual. Did he check for one? I read the whole thing before playing! Anyway, I did not approach the big guy and attempt a stealth attack because I knew I had no weapons. I went for the glittering keys instead. In my brain: "If I fail a stealth attack, I'm dead. Hey, I haven't even picked up a real weapon, let's not start anything I can't handle! Let's avoid conflict." I know when I play a horror game my instinct is not preset to: kill everything.

  18. Agree with you Pat, gratuitous violence has been done to death, excuse the pun, and it's just….. childish storytelling tbh

  19. The problem is after I get out of the tutorial I forget the controls and there is nothing to look up then I'm doing trial and error for a F'n hour.

  20. My copy of the game came with a manual. Don't know what version of the game you got.

  21. I saw that big guy and said fuck that…grabbed the keys and got the hell out of there, haha.

  22. Megaman X and Super Metroid are amazing examples of good game design. They teach you everything about the gameplay without you even realizing it.

  23. Had the exact same problem with that fucking game!!!

  24. It told me during the load screen "Sometimes it's better to run away from a fight" Why would you fight him?

  25. You don't even need to swing your stick the same momentum as the character,just mash it up and down..I'm not shitting you.Honestly,if you want a game with a satisfying ending,or even just a story that makes sense…best just take it back to game stop.

  26. pat, you are a classy gentleman. awesome show, good job.

  27. Egoraptor's MegaMan X video comes to mind.

  28. The Xbox/xbox one version of "The Evil Within" came with a full booklet. Does the play station versions not have that?

  29. god, I wish pat would shut up

  30. at our gamestore i yet to hear one person to say anything positive about evil within. i dont mind the game but yes it seems to be fine handholding. i usually pass oN AAA  hype games but with a new systems i picked this up. enjoyed ailen for a few days but after a Dark souls and ascii kick everything seems like handholding.

  31. I remember Hitman Blood Money had a tutorial level at the beginning, it was lame and boring I skipped it cuz I like to learn a game as I go along, u know the old fashioned way, trial and error… anyway that was the first time I saw such a thing, didn't care for it, especially the guy's voice, very bland… I remember seeing on youtube once a spiderman game with a similar tutorial level and the guys voice doing it was none other than Sam Axe! I forgot his real name umm… oh well I forgot but he's cool he's the dude from burn notice with the hawaiin shirts and drinks alot of beer lol anyway he was crackin jokes and being a smartass in the tutorial, I think they should all be like that

  32. <rant>
    The fact that you have to endure like a half hour AT LEAST of tutorials before you can actually play the fucking game is one of the major reasons I stay away from games made in the last 10 years or so. They other major reason being needlessly long and unskippable cutscenes which again, you have to sit through like 5-20 minutes of before you can actually play the fucking game. I mean I get that some games are heavily story based, and that's fine. But it seems like these days every game is trying to be a movie with shittons of back story and cut scenes and what not. If I wanted to watch a movie, I would watch a fucking movie. And there's no goddamn excuse for making cutscenes unskippable. I find it almost insulting, as if the developers are like "we think we made such an awesome cutscene that nobody would ever think to skip it, so we won't even bother putting that feature in the game."

  33. What is in that bottle in front of Ian??

  34. yeah this whole tutorial thing is weird i remember the days when you just had to figure it out on your own.

  35. Is it possible for Ian to say anything without sounding like an obnoxious elitist?

  36. Pat, in Brazil the meaning of "CU" is "ASS" then "CUPodcast" means "Asspodcast" not funny? : P

  37. I dont understand how a manual would make it easier for him to understand that your supposed to wait until the big guy walks away and then grab the keys.
    A manual only tells you the controls and not what your supposed to do to progress.
    And in my opinion its way more fun when its the game telling me how to play then if i must read a manual to understand it but it would be cool to get a manual too of course.